In this session, we look at ways to expand our ability to be flexible enough to take care of the things that are important in our lives and build internal stability.
Video transcript:
Dr. A: All right. Well, good afternoon. Good morning, wherever you are. This is Dr. A, and this is the Conscious Forum. We’ll give a little time here for everybody to kind of settle in. Hope everybody’s having a great day. We’re going to explore a little bit about ourselves today and I’m going to keep this short because hopefully, it’ll generate a lot of questions and things you guys want to know more about yourselves, or just in general, and just to remind everybody, the forum is designed to be interactive. It’s a great opportunity for you to learn from others as well as from yourself and it’s a great opportunity for me to learn from you and from others. It’s really important that if you have any questions or something comes up, that you feel this is a safe place to be able to talk about stuff. This is not psychotherapy. This is simply looking at consciousness, and consciousness, as you’ve heard me define many times, is basically understanding in more detail your thoughts, your feelings, and your actions, and being able to build through vertical development.
What I mean by that is learn to be more open. To be more flexible. To be able to have more emotional agility. All these things are really important and they’ve never been more important. I was just reading over the weekend that loneliness has become an epidemic. Forty percent of people in major cities are lonely to the point where they are literally suffering psychologically, and to the point where they have mental depression and mental issues. So we need to make sure that we’re understanding that our need to communicate as humans is very important and the idea of the forum is to give us a place to kind of really explore that and maybe some issues we’re having, and do it in a constructive way where there’s no judgment.
We are simply looking to expand our ability to be flexible enough to take care of the things that are important in our life and build, which I’ll show always in the last slide, is having that we have internal stability. In other words, we’re able to handle everything, and external equilibrium, where we’re able to basically work with others and build balance in our lives, in our relationships, in our jobs, and especially for me—in your health. And your health is not just your physical health, but also your wellness. Your ability to feel comfortable. To be happy. To be fulfilled, and all those things are in question because with AI, and all the artificial intelligence that’s occurring, it’s kind of dehumanizing us even more and that separation is not good. So with that much said, today we’re going to talk about: It’s Not Personal, So Make Your Life Yours. In other words, as you look around, we seem to take everything very personally and what we first must realize is that there are issues outside, but we think that having issues outside is actually the cause of most of our suffering and it isn’t. It’s the issues inside. You know, our fears, our insecurities, our desires, our needs, our wants, our self-consciousness, our embarrassment, our guilt. These are words that describe things going on inside of us, not outside. Guilt is not something outside of us. Guilt is an internal experience.
The way of freeing ourself and developing spiritually is what this talk is all about. So these obstacles must be removed to be free and experience spirituality. Spirituality is that feeling that you feel at oneness, you know, whether it’s within your faith, within your spiritual, within nature, all those things. When we’re at odds with that, when we don’t have coherence—because our bodies are designed to have physiologic, emotional, and cognitive coherence, which means when we’re in resonance and everything’s going well, it’s like a well-oiled machine. It’s like an orchestra where you’re the conductor and everything is moving smoothly. When that’s out of sorts then we start to have dysfunction. It plays a heavy role on our psychological, as well our physical health. So we want to talk about that today.
So your life is unfolding. I mean your life right now, where you sit today, is unfolding. It’s either improving and you’re becoming more open, more psychologically flexible, or you’re becoming more restricted, and we have a tendency to hold on, to either be rigid in our views or be fully chaotic in our views. In other words, we’re either making the world a certain way, it’s got to be exactly like that, or we’re not comfortable, or on the other hand, we just kind of “freewheel” it and whatever happens, we’re just reacting to it. Neither one of them puts us in a flow where we can really build that coherence we talked about. So first of all, there is no control. This is a really important thing. We have very little control over anything that’s happening to us in the world. I mean, obviously, there’s some controls, you know, you go inside if it’s raining, but let’s talk about weather for a minute.
Let’s say you planning a camping trip, right? You’re going with your family, you’ve been planning it for two weeks and you go on the trip and all of a sudden you realize the weather is raining. It’s going to rain all day, and you start getting upset about it and you know, what am I going to do? The reality is you can do nothing about it. You can make sure you have a tarp or make sure you have a raincoat, or alter your plans, but understand—we spend so much time wanting things to be a certain way and the most important gift you can give yourself is that you do not have control. You have control over very little, and we have our little spectrum that we’re looking from which is our focus, which is very important, which we’re going to talk about in a minute, but basically, we have no control over the weather. I’m looking at the ocean right now and it is just a rage, and I might have wanted to plan to go out in the boat today, I would be foolish to do that. My daughter’s in town from vet school, so we were going to try to do that later on, but it’s not going to happen, and so we have to adapt to that. So we’ll do something else. Just being with her, and she’s got two of her girlfriends here, is wonderful. I’m going to spend time, and we’ll have time together, and it’ll be great, but it won’t be going out in the boat and I’m not getting frustrated about it because the ocean would be miserable. So it’s important that we understand what we have control and what we don’t have control of, and we have control over very little.
Okay. So the second part is: your work is on you. We’re the ones that are responsible. Your actions to work is to move away from being fearful, being upset, being disturbed, because when you allow your fear of things to drive you, control you, you disturb your balance, and you’re not going to have coherence. So once you start to work with fear and relaxation, breathing, releasing, facing, honoring what’s going on around you and the natural process, I mean the ocean is actually, if you look at it from that image today, it’s beautiful. It’s in a rage, but it’s got gorgeous waves and the coloration is beautiful and the sky is kind of overcast and if I look at it from that vantage point, thinking, God, I have another day to look out at this, and it’s beautiful. Yeah, my plans had to change, but that’s okay, and once you develop that adaptation, that psychological flexibility, everything changes for you.
So how do you look at your life? Do you look at your life with curiosity? Are you open? Do you want to grow and learn? Basically, we can always reframe our past as well. So we look at our past, and many people are weighed down like an anchor from their past things that happened when they were growing up, things, issues with their parents or their siblings or being bullied in school, or it could have been a vast many things that can happen to us because again, life is intrinsically unstable, but basically are we using those experiences and learning from it, because when you were five years old, something had happened to you and now that you’re 40 years old, or 50, or 60–bottom line is, you now have a different adaptation, a different perspective, because you’ve had many years of life, and you can look if something like that is still disturbing you, you want to look at it, and if you need to, get help. Certainly, get that help. There’s lots of great psychotherapists that can help with some of the more traumatic things that can happen to us, but decide to resolve those things. Don’t hang on to them. They don’t serve any purpose. It’s 100% cost and no benefit, so we want to move forward and move beyond those.
So how do you frame everything? Even for me, skiing last week, I was out in Vail skiing for a week, and I ski with my ski instructor and every time I go I’m open, curious, and I want to grow, and I continue to get better at skiing because I look at it from that vantage point not, oh, this is what I know and I’m sticking with this. No. How do I now, over time, with experience, be able to grow, become more proficient, and more able to adapt? The same thing goes with every day of your life. If you’re willing to work on it and go to the mental gym, everything can change—and so something really important to think about. So is your future your friend? I always speak with future generative language. Everything is in front of you. You can become whatever you want to be and that’s not a hype, that’s not a hype thing, that is actually—you can become what you want to be if you’re willing to take the focus and the time, and our key asset is our focus.
So what percent of the time are you in presence? In the moment or are you somewhere else? I know when my daughter came yesterday, I got some kind of virus or something and I didn’t feel great, but I knew that I have this limited time with her, so rather than focusing on me, I made sure I had a decongestant and basically sat and we had a wonderful afternoon and evening. Her friends came in the evening and we sat and had a wonderful dinner together and I put myself in the present of being with one of the people I love most in the world, and that’s what we have control over. You have complete control of your mind. When you let your mind control you, when you let your thoughts, your feelings, control you, you’re now basically being a victim. You’re being a victim to yourself and there’s just no need for it, and it’s not helpful, and again, going back to cost benefit—do not do anything that has all cost and no benefit, and anytime we’re focusing on being frustrated, anxious, fearful, those are all neurotic things that we do in response to our personal mind trying to be in control, and the reality is, it isn’t in control. You are in control, and what I mean by that is, if you’re willing to be fully present in the moment, you will see so many things. When we check out, when we’re in a relationship, or a conversation, or a marriage, or it doesn’t matter what it is, and we check out when our significant other is with us, then we’re not present, and we’re degradating something that’s so important to us, and so it’s so, so important for us to realize, how often are we present? Because what are you focusing on? You know, it’s our most precious resource.
[00:11:03] The ability to take this incredible prefrontal cortex, this ability to be fully conscious, unlike any other species on the planet, and to be aware—fully aware, and be able to dial in and focus specifically on a conversation, on a relationship, on something you’re doing, and doing it well, you know, I mean, I know for me, one of the things, psychologically, for me is doing the dishes, and as funny as that may sound, it’s a release for me. It’s complete relaxation. I can sit there and do the dishes and just feel the warmth of the water, basically feel great doing it. Accomplish something so minor. I could have put it in the dishwasher, but since I live by myself, stupid to waste the water and I just as soon wash them myself—put them on the rack, and I feel a sense of fulfillment. Even in that little thing, rather than just doing it mindlessly, is doing it with focus and it matters so much in our internal stability. When we’re sensing something that’s going on that doesn’t feel right, that “icky sauce” that’s coming up, we want to address that right away. Not get into a cognitive emotive loop where now we’re getting more frustrated. We want to address it right from the beginning and the best way to do that is to be aware and ask yourself, what am I feeling right now?
There’s only five basic emotions and then iterative and derivatives of that, but those five emotions basically define, which one am I starting to feel? And then as you know, I created a technology a long time ago called, Stop. Challenge. Choose., that you can use to stop. Don’t let that “icky sauce”—don’t start getting down, going down the rabbit hole—but just kind of calm, relax, challenge—why am I feeling like that? And then choose the outcome we want, and so we have—if we do that, and practice that every day, it allows us to truly be focused on what’s most important.
So the question I always ask people is: do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? For me, when I started in medicine and graduated first of my class from medical school, and the intensity of going into critical care, and during that period I was really, really intense and really focused on being right. I was mostly right because I studied hard and I studied long and I made sure, but it was an intense process and you certainly didn’t relax. I mean, I felt good about my accomplishments but I know now and reflect now that it takes a lot, really, to upset me now, and even if I do get upset, it’s usually a 90-second thing, like, oh, okay, that happened. I’m human. You’re human. We’re human beings. We have the tendency to get defensive, want to be right, it’s just part of our nature because that’s how we were designed. It helped us survive early on, but as we mature, and as we become more understanding of ourselves, being able to pretty much, let most things—like water on a duck’s back—just kind of roll off and not address it or make it important to you, is really important.
So you can reframe. This is the most important skill. This is what psychological flexibility is all about. You can reframe anything and everything. What that means is when something happens, look at it and say—you know, the ancient stoics, the Greeks and the Romans had stoicism, and stoicism was, “the obstacles is the way,” and we’ve actually incorporated that into one of our leadership behaviors because the obstacles are the things are going to teach you in life. When things are easy and things are just happening, you’re not really learning from that, you’re just going through the experience, but when something happens that’s adversarial and you need to adapt to it, you can either say, “Woes me,” and crawl into your shell, grab your blankie, and suck your thumb, or you can say, “Okay, what can I learn from this? What experiences can this teach me?” Because this is what allows you to grow, and it allows you to start really, like a crucible, start to really form yourself and learn to reframe things. You know, I had a boat fire and ended up getting—it was bad. I lost my wife. None of those things are great, and there’s pain with them, but the suffering doesn’t need to continue. You can actually use that to grow and learn, and be more grateful, and have more gratitude for life, and for relationships. All those things can be turned to be used to your advantage, and that’s what you want to focus on.
So again, just to kind of end this today—pain is part of life. We’re going to lose loved ones, we’re going to have people get sick, we’re going to have accidents, we’re going to get viruses. Things are going to happen. Days are going to be not available to go out in the ocean. These are all different nuances of the thing called life and so some of them are painful and we have to adapt to them, but suffering is optional. You can take these things, reframe them, and use them as learning tools. So again, we’re this little speck in this universe, which now that we’ve got all these new, incredible spacecrafts and probes that go out and look at—there’s billions and trillions of stars and galaxies and we’re just this little speck in the middle of nowhere, really, and we should be so grateful. When we look at the—from the astronauts and from the spacecrafts that we put out—you look back and you see this open void, and you got this bright green, bluish ball that we get to live on, where in the morning, this morning there was a small little bird, little yellow—I think it was a finch, that was sitting out on my deck, and just singing to me, where can you learn to just appreciate like, wow, thanks. I’m getting a free serenade from nature.
So that’s kind of what I’m talking about today, and want to explore, but the idea is to build internal stability. So that things can come in and certainly some of them may be painful, but we can adapt to them, and then come out and determine the outcome by our response and that creates external equilibrium, where someone comes to you and they’re upset, you can simply ask them some upset technology questions, like, what happened, what was missing, and what’s next? And kind of calm them down and build that relationship where they know you’re interested. Those are just simple examples of the things we can do when we become focused, and understanding, and not trying to be in charge, but actually experiencing being grateful for life. So I’d like to open it up for questions now. Rachel, what do we have?
Rachel: All right. First up we have Jan. Jan, can you come on camera?
Dr. A: Hey, Jan!
Jan: Hey, Dr. A. Good morning.
Dr. A: Good morning.
Jan: So good to be here with all of you guys, and well, I don’t actually have a specific question, but I just wanted to share an experience I had yesterday that was a perfect example of what you’ve been trying to teach us here today and what I’ve been trying to practice, but yesterday it really happened, and so I just wanted to take a second and share it. I was in a situation where I had done something, I was looking forward to helping someone with health issues, and it looked like there was a possibility to really do some good, but I had to wait for some time to go by before I could see if this was actually going to fall into place and it seemed like it was taking too long and so I reached back out to this person, and I said, “Hey, I’m following up with you. Is this looking good? Can this be something we can work together on?” And the person didn’t respond again, so it was like—I was feeling like I wasn’t getting any communication, and it wasn’t working out, and I was getting impatient, and so then I reached out to that person’s supervisor and I just said, “Hey, I’ve reached out to her twice and I just am not hearing back from her, could you follow up on that for me?” And he said, “Sure. I’ll follow up,” right at the same time, she reached out to me that same time, and so I wrote him back and said, “Hey, I just heard from her,” and I had kind of been a little impatient, but I didn’t think I’d done anything wrong, and he reached back out and said, “Based on the fact that she reached out, you owe her an apology.” And I at first was just taken back, and I was like, I didn’t do anything wrong. I felt like I wasn’t in the wrong, and I felt like I was misunderstood, and I was frustrated, and I felt all this emotion happen in me that this man would just say to me, “You owe her an apology,” because I hadn’t offended her, I didn’t think, and so I started noticing myself.
The emotion was coming up and I started noticing myself wanting to tell my husband about it, other people about it, to kind of pull people to my side of things, which takes a huge amount of energy, and just drains me, but that was my initial tendency because I wanted to be right, and I sat there for a minute and I just struggled with that desire to want to go and get people on my side, and then I stopped, and I just started to breathe. I said, could he be right? Do I owe her an apology? I probably do. I didn’t gravel. I felt like it was just something that had to do with helping people with health and business, and I went back and I said, “Hey, I’m so sorry that I was impatient and that I didn’t trust the process. I should have waited to hear back from you before I went above you and talked to your supervisor, so I apologize for that.” And I apologized to him as well and said, “I should have just trusted the process and I’m sorry.” And even though I didn’t feel like I did anything wrong, I realized I did kind of, and I could learn from it, and I just stepped into that space and the relief that came was—it just filled me with energy. It filled me with a feeling of appreciation and respect for both of them, and that if we can work together in the future to make something good happen that would be fantastic, but I’m willing to be patient, and I wasn’t expecting anything in return, but they both got back to me through email and said, “Hey, it’s all good. No problem. Let’s go forward from here.”
[00:21:11] So I was like, okay, I had to sit there for 90 seconds and literally let the feeling flow through me, just let myself feel it, and you were right. It was about that long. And a tear went down my cheek, and I felt kind of sad, and then it lifted and I was able to step into that space that you’re talking about. So I just wanted to share it because it was such a great experience.
Dr. A: Yeah. No, that’s great, Jan. Thank you for sharing, and just some observations from that, is that we all come from our own perspective and our own perception, and basically, the gentleman was also projecting. He’s projecting from his vantage point, right? And she’s projecting from her vantage point, and you’re projecting from your vantage point and knowing that whether you did anything right or did anything wrong really isn’t the point. The point is to be observing, and one of the things to always remember—communication is the response we get. So no matter what we’re doing, even if it’s in the kindest, lovingest way, if the person is upset about it then that’s on us because we have somehow offended them and we have to decide on whether that’s important and to be able to recognize that, and that’s what that presence is, is that you were able to say, okay—and the other part is, and Jim Defner, our dear friend, talks about, and it comes from Byron Katie, but, bottom line, was this idea that what if the opposite is true, right? In any situation, if you’re kind of frustrated about it just say, what if the opposite is true? What if I did offend him? Right? What if I did? Because we come from our own frame of reference, our own perception, and basically, it may or may not be correct. Right? It’s our interpretation of reality, and so someone else’s interpretation may be very different.
So the idea is, what you did is you settled in. You basically, that calmness that came from you was that all of a sudden you realize that, “Hey. It’s not important if I was right. If I did the right or wrong thing. It’s important that somehow I’ve created dysfunction with the relationship.” And so what you did is, by apologizing, you created external equilibrium, and then you saw both of them come back. Once they sense that, you realize that they might have been upset all of a sudden, they think, wow. She’s cool. We’re cool. Everything’s fine. Right? But people just to show you—in fact, worlds, we’ve got countries right now, right? Not just individuals, but countries right now that are at odds at each other because they both want to be right, and there’s just no sense to it. No, calmness to it because everybody comes from their own perspective. So I think that’s a beautiful observation, and think about—when I ask the question, do you want to be happy or right? Look at how relieved, how much energy that you said was inside of you that all, just like a steam kettle, right? Just like popped off and released that steam and then all of a sudden you feel that sense of calm and that equanimity that comes with it. So that’s a beautiful thing, and you’re a great student of that Jan. I’ve watched you grow so much over the years. It’s tremendous.
Jan: Well, thank you so much for everything you’ve done. It’s life-changing, and just that 90 seconds to sit there and feel it. I had to sit there and force myself just to feel it.
Dr. A: Yeah. You gotta feel it. You’ve got to feel your feelings all the way through. If it’s a little painful, that’s okay. If you don’t, if you don’t feel it all the way through and you repress it you’re going to feel it again and again and again and again. The only way to grow is to feel those feelings all the way through and realize they’re just emotions. They’re just your body’s response to some thought or some action that’s happened, and bottom line, once you master that, then any—again, pain is not optional. Pain is going to occur in our lives. Even the small little pains like that, but if you hold onto them, they can ruin your week.
Jan: Yeah.
Dr. A: They can ruin your week, rather than just be a 90-second thing you’re dealing with, and by the way, we’re all humans and as humans we feel these things it’s part of our makeup and for us to basically respond to it—it’s just like going back to the mamillion, or my labrador retriever. Right? Bottom line is, he may get upset about something but it lasts about 15 seconds and then he’s wagging his tail again, right? That’s how we want to become. We want to become—we just don’t take these things too seriously, and again, my chief, when I was in critical care told me, “Don’t take life too seriously because you don’t get out of it alive.”
Jan: Right. I love that, and the part that really was impactful too was the fact that I didn’t go and gather people in my corner. I stopped myself from doing that because that is something I have done in the past, and it was because once I get over it, then they come back to me and say, hey, what about that? And then it just drums it all up again, and it just is drama.
Dr. A: Yeah, it is. It’s all drama.
Jan: Yeah, I avoided it this time. It was so great. It was so great.
Dr. A: Congratulations. That’s awesome.
Jan: Thanks.
Dr. A: You’re welcome. All right, Rachel, who else we got?
Rachel: All right. Next up we have Allison.
Dr. A: Allison, how are you?
Allison: Hey, Dr. A.
Dr. A: How are you doing?
Allison: Well, honestly, I am having a really hard time showing up right now for more than my scheduled, ”must-do” responsibilities.
Dr. A: Okay.
Allison: I’m feeling frozen. I’m finding myself trying to hide and protect, because emotions around me—I allow to have a big impact on myself. I’m a temperature taker and so with just all of the heightened emotions that are circling around us right now in the world, I’m having a really hard time showing up beyond the “must-dos,” and I want to, but I’m frozen. I’m stuck, and so I’m buffering. You know, I’m doing what I can do. I’m keeping my kitchen clean, getting my family fed, really having some great conversations with my 11 and 13-year-old girls and helping them with their mental health as they move through, just what is in their lives right now, but as far as, you know, leading, and showing up for others beyond my main responsibilities, it’s really hard right now, and I want to…[00:28:13]
Dr. A: Yeah. Yeah. Let’s talk about it. So, you know, in general, let’s just go to the Drama Triangle, which we were just talking about with Jan—so what role are you playing in the Drama Triangle?
Allison: Oh, totally the victim. I love being the victim.
Dr. A: Yeah. Yeah, you’re the victim, but you’re also the hero.
Allison: Oh, oh, big time. That too.
Dr. A: Okay, so I mean, when it comes down to it, getting unstuck is a matter of, first of all, being kind to yourself. Okay? That’s where it starts. You cannot be a good mom, a good wife, a good friend when all you’re doing is being the hero because what you’re doing is you’re overcompensating and then as a result of that you feel like the victim. So you got those two things going on big time. Okay? So you know the empowerment triangle is about changing and shifting so that the victim is now what? The creator.
Allison: See, I need to go back and read that element.
Dr. A: [00:29:21] Yeah. Exactly. You should read that. So the creator is a very different position, right? Then being the victim. The victim is, you’re saying, “Oh, I’ve got it.” What you’re saying—you just said it in three minutes—I have a set of chores that are my burden in my life that I’m taking care of, but beyond that, I can’t really do much else. That’s because you’re a victim. If you move yourself to the creator position then you’re doing these things and you’re ready to reach out because it’s adding value to you. You are the center of your universe and you need to be, okay, from the standpoint that unless you become the Dominant Force in your life, take full radical responsibility, and do these things because you want to do them, because they’re things that you support—so what you’re doing is you’re actually [unintelligible 00:30:15] with your kids. You’re actually teaching them the things that I’m teaching you, rather than address them to yourself.
Allison: Oh, totally, and my clients too.
Dr. A: Yeah. Yeah. So you are literally, rather than feeling the pain and things you need to feel, like we were just talking about with Jan, rather than addressing those and feeling those, you’re putting yourself fully in hero mode so that you’re helping others. So you’re ignoring yourself and what happens is that’s a cascade of going down the hole, right, and it’s not going to get better unless you change, and what we talked about earlier, reframing it—look, I’m just watching your face. I’m watching the change in the conditions of your face. Your smile, the look, the color in your face, just by bringing that up. I see. Don’t you feel different? You’re looking different.
Allison: You’re giving me hope.
Dr. A: Yeah, well because you know this. You’re a great student, and what happens is, when something becomes overwhelming, then we go back to our old ways because it’s easy. It’s easy to feel sorry for yourself, right? And it’s easy to go out and help the people you need to help, and just ignore the pain you’re having. So, first of all, you’ve got to, again, going back to this, I’m saying like a broken record, but you’ve got to stop every time you’re feeling this feeling, and stop, and start feeling it through. Those underlying emotions, those undercurrents, those big rocks that are in the creek that are causing the rapids and the tumultuous water, they’ve got to be addressed. You’ve got to hit them. Now, you can do it yourself or you can get help. I mean, [unintelligible 00:32:07], as you know, this forum isn’t about psychotherapy. This is just about creating information and awareness and seeing can you work on it yourself or do you need help. And if you need help, there’s not anything wrong—listen, if I want to go get trained for heli-skiing, where I’m going in a month, I get professional help on learning to ski at that level and deep powder. It’s up to my waist. The same thing with our minds. If we need help, get help, because—
Allison: Okay, can I ask you a question about that?
Dr. A: Yep.
Allison: So I have an awesome therapist that I’m seeing and I have trouble sometimes communicating like what I need to work on. So based on what we’ve been talking about, what would I say that I need help with?
Dr. A: Okay. So you should say, is that, bottom line—in fact, you could even say we had this conversation today, that you were talking to Dr. A, who’s a conscious leader and has written several books on this, and we were talking about kind of where I sit in my role in my life right now, and the two things that came out from our conversation was first, that I’m basically repressing my emotions. I am suppressing and resisting taking any interest in myself and I’m projecting onto others being a hero to my kids, to my clients, to people that I have to—but I’m not having any creative experience right now because I feel like it’s an obligation. Okay? And that I need to help them be better so that I can be better, but it’s not creating any creativeness, right? It’s not helping me. It’s like a burden. It’s like a burden I have that’s my responsibility, and, oh woes me, and then it allows me to be a victim. It allows me to be a victim, wallow in my sorrow, and I’m totally blocked as a result of it.
Allison: Yep.
Dr. A: Does it make sense?
Allison: Okay. Yes.
Dr. A: Yeah, and they can really help you with that. I mean, that’s really important because bottom line is, when you’re—listen, I’ve known you for a long time now and I know, I’ve seen you in times when you are just alive with joy, and right now is not one of those times, but the part that’s really important, and the part that I want to emphasize is that when you’re going the wrong way, you don’t ignore it, you address it right away. That’s the whole idea of shift and drift, right? Is if we allow ourselves to drift into the Drama Triangle and we allow ourselves to get caught up in that emotion where we’re feeling the victim and being the hero, and probably a little bit of the villain, too, right? You blame. Then we can’t be productive. This beautiful—you have a beautiful mind Allison, and basically, when you can’t use this properly and it’s coming into the limbic—where it’s all these tumultuous emotions going on, and you’re not addressing them, you’re repressing them, you’re like coiled springs. You’re pushing them back down and it’s just getting worse and worse and worse, and so you got to basically say, what? Time out. I’m done. I’m done. Go to your therapist, sit down, have a catharsis and I mean just throw it all out there. Don’t tiptoe. Be fully emotionally raw. Raw.
Allison: That’s so hard to do because I have rose-colored glasses like, inside my head.
Dr. A: That’s a concept. That’s a concept. It’s not real. You created a story. Okay. Hey, believe me. I understand. I’m very—I look at the world always on the positive side, so I get that, but when you have real stuff going on, you’ve got to address it, and you can’t fake it. It’s not about faking it. Not about saying, oh, I’m fine, because you’re not. You’re not fine, and you know you’re not fine, and you got to get your personal mind out of the way. The thing that’s actually saying, no, we got this covered Allison. Don’t worry. We got it. We can work through anything because you can’t—because we are not capable of fully controlling everything and as I mentioned earlier in this talk today, there is no control. You’re dealing with something that’s beyond your ability to fix yourself. You’re trying to fix everything. You’re trying to fix your family, and by the way, I’m sure you’re giving your kids great advice because you have amazing knowledge, but it’s got to apply directly to you. It’s got to come from within you, because, just to slap you across the face—you’re not being authentic with yourself.
Allison: No. Yeah.
Dr. A: Right? Yeah, you’re not. So let’s get that under control, and I think that’s beautiful. I would set up. As soon as you can, and go in there, and I mean let it all out, and when it starts to, when that part says, “No no no, I don’t need to say that.” No. You need to say it all. You’ve got a professional that you said is awesome, can really help you, but they can only help with what you tell them.
Allison: I know. I know. It’s getting those words out.
Dr. A: Yeah.
Allison: Honesty. It’s hard for me.
Brad: You know why? Because your ego wants to say, “I’ve got it all. I’ve been studying this stuff for years. I got this all figured out.” That’s your ego. Get your ego the hell out of the way. In fact, when you go into their office, ask your ego to stay outside in the waiting area, okay? And go in there fully raw. That’s how you’re going to get the best—and all you need, you are an incredible woman. You have incredible talent, but when you’re stuck, you’re stuck and you’re not getting out of this one by yourself. So go. Yeah. I know. You know, it’s okay to lose a few to win, right?
Allison: Yeah. So I just had an appointment with her yesterday and I said we don’t need anything for another two weeks, so I’ll be reaching back out and saying…just kidding.
Dr. A: When you get off the call today, call right away and just say, you know what? “I really need to talk to you. This is really important. I feel like, I have some stuff that I really need to talk to you about that I haven’t,” and set it up so when you go in there, it’s too late to back off.
Allison: Got it.
Dr. A: All right? All right. Let me know. Let me know, okay? See? I love that smile. All right. Okay. Rach, who else we got?
Rachel: All right. We do have one question, but she can’t come on live so Chris is going to ask.
Dr. A: Oh, my God. That’s scary.
Chris: Oh no. I got to protect myself too. This is someone else asking this question. My wife is within earshot. This is not me asking this question.
Dr. A: Okay.
Chris: Deborah said, how should we react to someone who always wants to be right—definitely not addressed to my wife. This is from someone in the audience.
Dr. A: Okay, Chris. I’m not gonna let you get in trouble here buddy.
Chris: This is recorded.
Dr. A: Okay. Good. Nice. So how do you address someone that always wants to be right? Well you don’t have any control over that, and I want to be really clear on that. If someone wants to be right, they want to be right, and if you challenge them, you’re just upping the game because then they’re going to create a whole scenario of things of why they’re right. So basically there’s two parts, depending on what the relationship is. If it’s your spouse or a family member, somebody you’re kind of stuck with, bottom line is, you have to find ways around it. If it’s someone that’s just casual, then I would just ignore it because that’s not your—our job is not, by the way, our job is—not even our spouses—our job is not to fix anybody. That is not our responsibility. We have very little impact on that. You have to take people as they are, and then the idea is to awaken them to more so that if someone needs to be right and basically, you’re a little upset about it, then you can just say, “Okay, that’s your opinion.” You know, and what I always say is this, listening to someone isn’t the same as agreeing with them. This is a really important differentiator. When we listen, and acknowledging someone is important. If we ignore them, if they start saying something and then we ignore them then that creates emotional dysfunction and disequilibrium between a relationship and we don’t want that.
[00:40:56] So just by listening to them, what in essence they see is that you’re listening to their side. Doesn’t mean you’re agreeing with what they’re saying. Just because you listen. But ignoring them or going back and arguing with them just amplifies the situation and now we double down on our position, so that’s not helpful either. So if you’ve got someone that always wants to be right and it’s an irritation to you, I think the best thing is if you don’t do this, if you just go like this, they can do this, but nothing. There’s nothing there to hit. So it just diffuses itself, and that’s usually what I do in those situations. If it’s something that’s important enough where there’s some danger, if the person totally ignores and does something ridiculous, then I might in those cases make a stance and that—please look at this variable. I know you think this is it but look at this circumstance so that you don’t get hurt. So you’re coming from a caring, loving, empathy, rather than from a contentious—that you’re right and they’re wrong, that amplification just puts you both down in the Drama Triangle. So the idea is always—again, going back to internal stability and external equilibrium, is in situations where someone definitely wants to be right and I clearly think they’re not right, I just say, “Okay. That’s your opinion. I understand.” And leave it at that, because there’s no trying to convince, especially someone who thinks they’re right. There’s no convincing them otherwise it just doesn’t work that way. Does that make sense?
Chris: It does, and you actually, you’ve said that exact phrase to me before, so now I need to question everything that I’ve done. So, but I do appreciate that. That’s very helpful.
Dr. A: Good. Awesome.
Chris: We had a question, we actually had a question from last month. So Linda, if you want to wait just a moment. We had a question from last month from Elizabeth, and Elizabeth had, how do you find the balance between wanting to serve others and feeling like you have to serve someone out of obligation, even though you truly want to help the person?
Dr. A: Well, that’s all projection. That’s all our own projection. That’s taking our story and creating—it’s again, going to the Drama Triangle. If we say obligation, then now you’re saying that you need to be their hero, and that just isn’t true. Other than small children who need security and being taken care of, but adults, in adults, it’s fully optional. There’s no necessity to be obligated to anybody. Okay? You determine that, and if that’s your attitude, that you’re obligated, then that’s you projecting it, that produces you as a victim. You’re saying, “Oh, I have to do this.” So now you’re the victim. You need to put on your goggles and your lab jacket and ask yourself, why? Why am I thinking that way? Because if you really do want to help them, but you feel obligated, then that’s just you playing a psycho game with yourself, because if you want to help them, then help them, and stop saying, “Oh, I’m obligated to,” because and if you don’t want to help them, then ask the question, is this really my responsibility? Because—by the way, everything from our kids, when our kids grow up, some parents helicopter and want to stay on them and be responsible for them way beyond when they should. So that’s all a matter of the situation, but for most situations, other than obviously if we have an old dehabitation relative, or parent, or someone that we’re taking care of, even in that case, we’re not obligated to do that.
We do that because we love them and we care about them. We may feel that we’re obligated, but that’s actually us just projecting that. You don’t have any true responsibility. I don’t mean to be callous there, but we decide to take care. In our society, if you look to the Asians, all the way back to, excuse me [Dr. A coughs], if we look to some of the ancient civilizations and even in Okinawa, one of the centurions, the people that live to be over a hundred, one of the honors is for them to have someone that’s alive be the caretaker of all the past relatives that have died, and make sure the kids get to know about their relatives so that the legacy continues on. So some cultures like that, it’s beautiful because you know that even when you die the kids that come are going to know about you. Unfortunately, in America, we have nursing homes which, you know, are honestly, pretty tragic and sad, where we kind of dispose of older people that no longer function at the high level, versus take care of and nurture them. So there’s a lot of pieces to that question, and I can’t answer all of them, but I can tell you that normally if you search inside of you, you’re doing it not out of an obligation, you’re doing it because you really do care and love them.
Chris: Awesome.
Dr. A: Okay. We have time for one more.
Rachel: Yes. We have Linda up next. Linda, can you come on camera and unmute yourself?
Chris: She can in a second. There you go.
Linda: Okay. Am I on?
Dr. A: Yeah! Hi, Linda.
Linda: Hi, Dr. Andersen. How are you?
Dr. A: I’m fantastic.
Linda: Good. Good. It’s…okay. It says that I—all right. Good.
Dr. A: I can hear you, I can see you.
Linda: Good. I was a Lieutenant Commander at the Naval Academy, probably when you were living there.
Dr. A Cool.
Linda: And I think we’re the same age, so we have some commonalities. I’ve spent 30 years of my life as a psychotherapist. I’ve got recovery in 12-step programs, Al-Anon and AA, but the other thing I’ve also achieved is an amazing recovery from having panic disorder. For many, many years they didn’t know how to treat it, so I came into Optivia, about five years ago. First time I ever was able to find a lasting program that has rocketed my life into the 25th dimension, and I thank you very much for all of that, because there were a lot of other accomplishments, but I was just ready at the time. Yesterday, this is my question, I went to the surgeon because I have had lower back pain, because I was a runner, a lot of things like that, lower back pain, and I’m again 71, and I’ve got some osteoarthritis in my lower back discs, and also a little in my shoulders.
[00:49:00] I do pilates three times a week. My weight is down to an acceptable BMI, according to the charts, and the doctor said we can’t do anything for you with surgery. It will just fuse your discs and you’ll just need to have more surgery, and so basically, where I am is there is nothing I can do for this lower back pain. Pretty much in the mindset is where I’m at. I have to live with it, and I know that when I focus on it, I make it worse, and I know that there’s ways to lessen it to a certain extent, but it’s there. I don’t think it’s going to get worse because I am very active and I do work very hard with your element regarding inflammation, but is there anything else that you can offer? And I’m trying not to be a victim of pain, but I’ve got the pain.
Dr. A: No. It’s real, and you know, it’s a real thing, and you’ve—first of all, Linda. I congratulate you on taking full responsibility, because you have, and you’re searching and asking for more. So a couple of the things—well, first of all, you have a very honest surgeon.
Linda: Yes.
Dr. A: Because surgeons, usually, when they have an opportunity to cut, they cut, [crosstalk 00:49:25]. So you have a wise surgeon that knows the difference, and as a whole, back surgery, as a whole, it’s questionable whether it’s even effective at all.
Linda: Exactly.
Dr. A: So, the thing I love, and the thing you’re asking about, and the thing you could do more and more of is actually in your mind. Your mind is the pain gate. Right? It “pain gates,” and so it actually gates the pain coming in that goes up into your brain, and so at different levels—one thing you’re doing that I love, and it’s really important and probably why it won’t get worse, is because you’re very active, and that there’s nothing—we have a tendency, and most people, when they have back pain, they stop doing stuff and it progressively gets worse. So, you’re doing the right things. Completely. The thing you might want to look at is there’s some experimental work being done, right? On different things along those lines, where you could—if you Google it, you’ll see, and ask about, what are the—there’s some transdermal stuff. There’s some other things that are out there. Some of the new analogues, even Metformin and stuff, where they’re looking at things that might possibly be helpful. So I would look there for that, and the other thing I would do is—do you do any thermal work? You do either spa work.
Linda: I do Wim…what’s his name? Wim Hof.
Dr. A: The cold plunge.
Linda: Yeah.
Dr. A: You do the cold plunge?
Linda: I’ve done the cold plunge.
Dr. A: You should alternate both those.
Linda: Okay.
Dr. A: Yeah. Alternate. In fact, what you can do—I was over, I did a video series in Copenhagen, and when I was there, basically, they have a tendency, the Danish, they do the spa, get really, really hot and then as long as your cardiovascular health is good, then they get in the plunge. Yeah. And just by that you can take care of—I know, actually, one of the sleep specialists that I met with while I was there and interviewed, she does it, and she has back pain, and she said basically getting really warm, getting her circulation, and then going in the plunge—bottom line is, it takes care of her pain for the whole day.
Linda: Yeah. That’s a good idea. Thank you.
Dr. A: Yeah. Try that, and then let me know.
Linda: I will let you know, and I’m 100% Swedish, so when I did the first plunge I was like, “I’m a Viking. I’m a Viking. I’m a Viking. I can do this!”
Dr. A: Yeah, that then shows that you have good control over your mind, because I would rather die than get in cold water, and I’m Danish.
Linda: I know. I’ve actually looked you up on Ancestry to see if there was any connection because of the Andersen, Johanneson, so anyway, thank you, doctor.
Dr. A: Awesome. My pleasure, and good luck to you. Let me know how you do.
Linda: Okay.
Dr. A: All right. Sounds great. Okay, we actually have eight minutes. Rachel, is there any anybody left, or are we done?
Rachel: Yes. We actually have one more, Mary.
Dr. A: All right.
Rachel: Mary, can you come off mute? There you are.
Mary: Hi. Can you hear me? Can you see me, guys? I’m walking.
Dr. A: Yeah.
Mary: Okay, perfect. So, Dr. A, this is a perfect topic. Thank you, by the way, for hosting me.
Dr. A: You’re welcome.
Mary: Oh, here I am. I’m standing in the way of someone’s parking.
Dr. A: Beautiful blue, blue sky there.
Mary: Yeah, I’m in Los Angeles, like the North Hollywood area. The weather is great. So, very thankful for that. Something that I’ve been dealing with personally and I’m sure others can relate with being in our type of program, where it’s constant personal development and constant learning consciousness and leadership and things. I’ve recently felt a relationship very close to me, kind of getting the “icky sauce.” Like something’s off, and I’m also listening to Mel Robbin’s book, Let Them and I feel that I’m connecting the dots. It just, it seems as though we’ve drifted apart in life, and this is someone very close to me, and it’s kind of challenging. I’m not really sure how to address it or if I should address it, but I think part of me, part of my issue is thinking like I don’t want—I never want someone to think, that I think, I’m better than them or that, oh, I’ve learned this and I’m all enlightened, but I do feel like I have outgrown some people in my life now and it—this isn’t the first time in my life I’ve had some very drastic changes in my life, but where I am in my life now, I’m just I don’t know. I don’t know. I guess the realization of it has been kind of difficult and I don’t know. I kind of don’t know what to do. I guess. Maybe I do know what to do and I just don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. Does that make sense?
Dr. A: No, it I hear what you’re saying. You’re all around it. You’re not telling me exactly what it is, but you’re all around it, and so what I would say to you is this—is that anything that is off, like you said, the ”icky sauce.” If it’s off, it’s not going to get better if you leave it alone. It’s not going to get better. So you have to address it. You have to address it, and when you said you don’t want to be condescending or think you’re better, of course you don’t, and that’s not how to address it. How to address it is just to ask questions. Just decide, hey—excuse me [Dr. A coughs]—is something going on? Is there—and then just listen. Listen, and if someone is quick to deny it, that no, nothing’s going on, then you should be more suspicious because basically if they’re not willing to discuss it, then clearly there’s dysfunction there, right? And you have disequilibrium in a relationship and that’s not going to get better.
So I always find that even though it’s tough, it’s better to question and to do it in a non-confrontational way. Just ask questions and say, hey, is everything all right? It just seems like we’re drifting apart, and just be really honest and frank, and with the idea that you’re not looking to judge. You’re not looking—you just simply are curious. You want to understand what’s going on. If there’s something going on, you want to address it, and if they’re not willing to address it, then you have to think about what are the contingencies? What else do I need to do here? But by ignoring it—and by the way, when you’re working on yourself, and you’re growing, and you’re going to the mental gym, and you are building your consciousness, that’s a good thing. It’s always a good thing. It’s never—it’s not like, oh gosh. Why did I do this? Now I’ve opened up Pandora’s box and all these things. No. It’s that you’re growing and other people may not be on the same schedule as you. They may not be grown. Okay?
Mary: Right.
Dr. A: So you take them for where they are, and you understand, and you care for them from that vantage point, but there’s also a decision to make sometimes and since, I don’t know who these people are, I’m not in any way creating judgment or what you should or shouldn’t do, but there are times when we do need to move on in relationships, and your growth, because there’s a very big difference between codependency where we need each other then co-commitment where we want to be with each other. Very different relationships. Strong, growing relationships are co-committed. They mean that we are fine independent, but together we’re better.
Codependent is that we need each other. We’re needy. I need them. I mean, I used to see this all the time in medicine. I remember working in the emergency room and you’d have abusive husbands or wives, and they’d be someone in the ER with a busted eye, and then 15 minutes later the spouse would be there, “Oh, I love you,” and then they’re together. Even though she just got a shiner from him, because that’s codependency. That means that somehow we’re fulfilling a hole. That’s not the relationships we want. We want relationships where they’re additive, and they grow, and sometimes you have to step away from dysfunctional relationships if it’s not working, and so that’s—you are the, again, you need to organize your life on what matters most to you, and become the Dominant Force in your life, and in that, when you have relationships that seems to be going south or just you need to, in a kind way, and not in a judgmental way, but just, what’s going on? Because, you know, I care for you and it just seems like we’re growing apart and we need to talk about it, and if they’re not willing to talk about that, that in itself tells you everything.
Linda: Yeah. Absolutely, and I have addressed—I have asked a few questions on our last couple of meetups. So, I definitely feel like the next conversation is this conversation. The harder one. Like, okay, is it just me? I think I’m ready, and I just, maybe needed to just realize it and get coached on it a little bit. But yeah, I agree. I’m not one, I don’t feel like it’s healthy to just ignore stuff.
Dr. A: Right.
Linda: Even though it’s painful. Like some of the responses I’ve gotten when I’m like, is everything okay? I just feel like the energy is a little off, or is there something you want to talk about, and the responses have been a little bit painful. As if it’s my fault, because my life changed because I’m doing these things. I had a baby and I feel like it’s a little unfair, but you know, it is what it is. It’s not personal. So, I think I’m just like…finding being okay with where things are, and not holding onto what was.
Dr. A: Yeah, exactly. You can’t build your house on sand. You just can’t do it, because the foundation will crumble, and so it’s best—and you’ve done the work. You know what you need to say, what you need to do, and you need to find out okay, is this repairable or not? And if it is and it’s just off and it needs one tumbler to click and then it’s back together, great. If it’s not and the tumblers are falling, then you know there’s no reason to continue drawing it out, right? And it’s actually not helpful to both parties, not just you, but also the other party. So, it’s important to have these conversations and be transparent, and you know what? People either get it or not get it, but what I would use caution in is, because you mentioned it once, so I know this is part of what you’re thinking, but I think it’s really important, not to be judgmental or that, “Hey, I’ve just outgrown you.” There’s no such thing. People can live in object poverty on an island somewhere and not work on this at all and be fully content. So it has nothing to—what it comes down to is, what do you need and how do we need to grow so that we can survive in a complex world, right? And so we live in a very complex world.
You live in L.A. I mean, that’s as complex a place you can live as anywhere in the whole world and so—but the important thing is to create contentment, involvement, and feeling a sense of connectivity and again, working towards co-committed relationships. Right? Like my daughter’s here from vet school and we have—we are so close, it’s so great for us to be together, and she’s 24 years old and yet, her two friends she brought over, we sat and had dinner together, and she feels this really co-committed relationship I have with her, right? It’s very, very strong and important and you have to work on it. She lost her mom 6 years ago and I had to become mom/dad and that was an adjustment for me, but it was where my priority was. So for you, you’ve got to make sure in your relationships that you’re putting energy into things that are growing. You want those things to grow. Right? They need to grow. Not deteriorate. Not stay stagnant, because as soon as they’re stagnant and they start dropping, then you’re creating more dysfunction and it’s not helpful long-term. Okay?
Linda: Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Dr. A: You’re so welcome. Let me know how it works out, okay?
Linda: I will. Okay.
Dr. A: Okay, awesome. Well, we’re out of time. It’s one o’clock and I appreciate all you guys coming on. Hopefully, this was helpful, and then any feedback you want to give us, I would love to hear, and anything else, things you’d like to bring up on the forum, things you’d like me to talk about. I’m certainly always open to that. So, everybody, have a great rest of your week and God bless. See you guys. Bye.
